Additionally, wadcutters are difficult to quickly load due to the blunt, un-tapered shape of the bullet. Winners will be notified by certified mail on official letterhead. Factory Remington wadcutters give about 700 fps in the snub and about 750 fps in the 4-inch pencil barrel, and shoot to the fixed sights. I dont think that is much difference personally, so Ill opt for the round with the better street reputation. You can reload and shoot both very well. I dont want to shoot too much of my precious, expensive defense ammo. All their graphs, charts, tables, and slide rules told them that the .357 Magnum was the King of stopping power, so why would anybody choose something less? Some shooters load the HBWC backwards in the case, believing it creates a particularly effective hollow point bullet for self-defense. A very well written & researched article. I have a Ruger LCR 327 for myself and possibly my wife. If you do not anticipate barriers, then you will be happy. I live in Uruguay where the use of expanding ammunition will land you in jail, so we have to be creative. This may look like legal advice. The first priority of defensive ammunition is reliability. Cast bullets offered by Oregon Trail include the 200 grain Semi-Wadcutter patterned after the Hensley & Gibbs #68, a 225 grain Flat-Nose, and a 230 grain Round-Nose. Anecdotal evidence and testimony indicates that the police officers in New York City who were issued semi-wadcutters generallyhad a more favorable impression of their ammo performance than the officers in Los Angeles who were issuedround nose lead bullets. And on YouTube the MAC channel (Military Arms Channel) did a comparison between a .357 magnum in a snubbie and 9mm in a snubbie. One notable result of this work was the development of a new ammunition testing protocol, which used 10% calibrated ordnance gelatin as a tissue simulant. $71.46 brownells.com. Combined with the bullet cutting such a nice clean hole and their legendary accuracy, lots of folks just like it more. The .45 ACP cartridge in the Model 1911A1 pistol is a common example. At 80, my steadiness and recoil tolerance have decreased noticeably. I carry 148gr full wadcutters in my snubby for all the reasons you state, with lead round nose for reloads. Now there is a challenge for Paul. Load your guns cylinder with wadcutters for carry, but choose a load with a more friendly ogive for your speedloader or ammunition strip. :biglaugh: I am talking about a different type of competition. These 230-grain projectiles are then loaded to an average chamber pressure of about 21,000 psi, at a nominal muzzle velocity of between 800 and 900 fps. Mike (nMW), I wonder if the HST didnt open up at all before it exited? [6][4], From Ingot to Target: A Cast Bullet Guide for Handgunners Chapter 12: The Keith Semiwadcutter (SWC), https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Semiwadcutter&oldid=1104926170, This page was last edited on 17 August 2022, at 15:39. Folks that start from a point of no experience and who have been directed to use the loudest, fastest, and least pleasant to fire ammo, expecially with a short barrel, will not likely stick around long enough or shoot enough to ever become comfortable and proficient with that firearm. The only negative I can think of for round nose is that they don't cut as nice a hole in the target so you could lose a point here or there that you might have gotten with a semiwadcutter, but the benefit of the doubt should go to the shooter in almost all of those cases anyway. Thanks for all the info! Deployed military should use stateside address. In my experience, what you have stated here is spot on! These have nearly cylindrical noses, which are as long as the firearm chamber allows, and just slightly smaller than bore diameter so they will easily chamber. Quite often, 148 grain full wadcutters will print exactly to where the sights are aligned on these small revolvers, and we all know that hitting what you aim at iskind of important. Jason Vanderbrink is the new CEO of Sporting Products at Vista Outdoor. Though full wadcutter bullets are often unreliable in semi-automatic pistols, semi-wadcutter bullets usually work much better. In the summer, I used to carry a S&W Chiefs Special. Id consider myself well-armed with a 155 grain wadcutter at 950-1050. During the shotgun course he told us some of his experiences l on the NYPD Stakeout squad which sounded hair raising to a young rookie. Whenever I buy more range ammo I get confused. Some people do get nice groups like that when they shoot fast. Well, maybe not by my auto-pistol friends, but I dont care. They are a little stouter than I like, but tolerable. I use this load in a GP-100, 686, and 640. With these either end can be started into the case mouth. However, for typical ranking, I'd go RN (lead or jacketed), SWCs, then JHP's. I load my own 155 grain wadcutter from RimRock into .357 cases. dominated the Strasbourg Racoon Tests in every tested caliber. Thanks for the informative article. Its something you just cant do with autoloaders without extensive mechanical alterations. The long surface of these bullets kept them going straight (to simplify). Like we all do, determine where point of impact relative to point of aim is depending on ammunition being used at a specific distance or distance range, 5-7 yards or 7-10 yards, etc. You get what you pay for, and you pay for what you get. Typically the velocity in 6 revolver barrels, or in the 5 barrel of the much-admired S&W 52 semi-auto pistol, was around 750800 fps. The flat shape of the nose is the primary feature of the wadcutter. Light weight bullets or heavy? (III) Giveaway winner(s) chosen by random drawing. Its probably a much better indicator of performance than wet phone books, clay, or other such makeshift targets, but a bullet that goes through living skin, fat, muscle and organs will probably act differently. Four .38 Specials pose for comparison; (l.-r.) jacketed hollow point, lead round nose, lead semi-wadcutter and full wadcutter. PROS : Punches big holes in targets. With a 2.7-gr. That said, I absolutely do not fault anyone for choosing wadcutters. Primary law enforcement service cartridge from 1920s to 1990s. I could almost hear the sigh of relief through the wires when I told our friend that it wasnt necessary to carry Magnum ammo in a Magnum revolver, and that I wouldnt do it myself in the Ruger LCR. Im probably the last person to notice, but .22 rimfire ammunition has become awfully expensive, assuming you can find it at all. It is not. Hence my user name and initials: WGJ. Sure u can carry a slightly smaller gun but is that worth the trade off when they either dont penetrate deep enough or move fast enough for reliable expansion? Dang it, fellas! For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Thanks again for the great articles! As a result, wadcutter bullets should only be used for self-defense purposes if there is nothing else available. Mike. If you shoot indoors, stay away from lead, you'll gag at the line and so will the SO's. Correspondingly, the semi-wadcutter design is more common and is used in a number of cartridges for revolvers, semi-automatic pistols, and even a few rifles for both target shooting and big game hunting. Bullseye shooters also use semi-wadcutters in semi-automatic pistols. Furthermore, the .38 Special, 148 grain wadcutter frequently shoots to point of aim on fixed sight guns, which eliminates the need for manual corrections by the shooter, and enhances the likelihood of precision under stress. Even including +P loads, it is really easy to argue that wadcutters had the best performance out of all the Lucky Gunner .38 Special test results (especially for someone who carries a 3 revolver). Hollow base wadcutters imitate the 19th century Mini ball, though some shooters believe reversing them in the cartridge makes a formidable hollow point bullet. Weekend Knowledge Dump- October 18, 2019 | Active Response Training. Youll find an interesting and detailed history of the wadcutter bullet in Chapter 11 of From Ingot to Target: A Cast Bullet Guide for Handgunnersby Glen E. Fryxell and Robert L. Applegate. A round that expands well when its fired in a longer barrel may fail to expand much at all when fired through the shorter tube of a snubby, because the bullet strikes with insufficient energy to open up the hollowpoint. Fiochi and Federal both make them Federal only come 20 to a box, IIRC. Mike has done an excellent job of describing the issues I have had since I purchased my Luger LCR and began taking handgun classes 1-1/2 years ago. Even if it does not work out in pistols, I suspect that the Honey Badger load for a backup or snubbie may just be the perfect load of the future. I think I got a good chest shot as it looked like it was exhaling after vaping, only there was no follow-up inhaling on the part of the raccoon. Riley, Im not well versed on the .32 Longs. And I had a great deal of fun in the process. Haha, thanks for the encouragement to others to support us! The wad cutter or semi-wad cutter cut a cleaner hole which is easier to see and score. All entries must be received by giveaway end date. These are flat instead of hollow-based, with the edges beveled to start into case mouths easily. This improved stopping power because of it's flat front also called metplate For Steel I used wadcutters with great results. I've done quite a bit of bench rest accuracy testing with various bullets & powders. When you go from a 4 barrel to a 2 barrel, its not uncommon to lose around 100 feet per second (fps) in many .38 Special loads. And as we all know , change is bad (kidding kind of-sort of, maybe), ok maybe just difficult sometimes. Your information about the adequate penetration of wadcutter ammo coupled with the fact that the shooter will be more easily able to deliver their shots to the best locations on their target is correct and valuable. Heres hoping it doesnt get too much worse. If you got a good hit, maybe the bullet just acted like FMJ and slipped through. Haha! Lead full wadcutters are essentially lead cylinders ringed with lubrication grooves. No substitutions or transfers to a third party are allowed. You do, however have a few choices to make, choices that will determine your path in life. (II) Limit one entry per household. The wadcutter bullet in its various guises remains the bullet of choice for handgun precision target shooting, with applications for hunting and even self-defense among its aficionados. For years, the working load was a soft lead, cast or swaged 148-gr. I suspect they started slow and just get faster and faster and faster LOL,,,, bill i give,,, SWC will slice a nicer hole,, and going faster will definitely open things up,,,i haven't done any bullseye stuff for a long time. 2016 to 2023 RevolverGuy.com, All Rights Reserved. These loads will generally expand more, and deliver more energy to the target, even after going through heavy clothing. What is the deal with the low one an high one? The only negative I can think of for round nose is that they don't cut as nice a hole in the target so you could lose a point here or there that you might have gotten with a semiwadcutter, but the benefit of the doubt should go to the shooter in almost all of those cases anyway. Again, really interesting. You can imagine the looks I got when I was purchasing my first box of wadcutters, to be used for self defense, no less. As long as the SWC ammo you have feed OK, you don't have a problem. Semi-flats are a decent in-between round and some matches will allow these. The original load, a lead round-nose 158-grain bullet, was marginal as a stopper. As mentioned above, round nose is fine for range purposes. it will take time. Good article. A couple hundred rounds gets me through the year. Hope to never have to use these reloads for their intended purpose, but I feel they will not let me down . Our friend isnt there yet, and if we had stuffed the chambers of that LCR full of Magnum ammo, I can guarantee it wouldnt have been pretty or effective. This compact bag will carry enough gear for a quick range session or competition. I got tired of the Kentucky windage and painted my front sight to line up with POI as 7 yards. depends. A bullet that looks like an overpenetrator in gelatin might turn out to be just fine in the real world, where it has to defeat a non-homogenous, clothed target. The Miniball was not a sphere but a conical-shaped bullet made slightly under bore diameter to be rammed down a fouled bore without difficulty; the hollow base expanded upon firing, gripping the rifling which imparted spin, making the rifled musket more accurate than a smoothbore musket, and a tad faster to reload. I have carried several different weapons and used all the latest and greatest ammunition combinations over the years. It's about scoring. Justin, thats high praise indeed, and I thank you, my friend. WC loads present wide, flat surfaces that can cause a bit of fumbling when trying to insert or drop them into a revolver cylinder, especially when employing a speed loader, while noses of SWCs present some taper to guide cartridges into chambers. The wide nose is less prone to deformation than a narrow nose, allowing the bullet to keep its shape and continue to penetrate even if it encounters bone. If extremely well made, a premium bullet in any profile can be good. Greyson, Im curious . Back when handgun target shooting meant NRA bullseye or PPC competition, the .38 Special ruled. JavaScript is disabled. Its interesting to note that when Tim Sundles of Buffalo Bore designs his non-expanding Dangerous Game heavy pistol bullets, the shape he chooses is a flat-nose with the widest-possible meplat much like the wadcutter. (I) Giveaway ends May 31, 2023. Required fields are marked *. That said, if my memory is correct (it should be close, I watched the standard pressure ammo videos last week), wadcutters penetrated the pork ribs on the back of his target but were stopped by the skin (pig ears, if I remember right) on the back. For progressive reloaders with an automated bullet feed, the double-end wadcutter (DEWC) was designed, simply a cylinder beveled on each end. Are there any factory wadcutters for them? It can also be easily managed by someone who lacks the strength, technique, physical health, or experience to manage a harder kicking cartridge, and provide them a reasonable defensive alternative. Box 1926, Escondido, CA 92033. A forum community dedicated to all 1911 firearm owners and enthusiasts. Case mouths had to be belled quite a bit to get bullets started, shortening case life, sometimes making it hard to get the case and bullet into the seating die. The load is intended to be useful for both training and defense use. The bullet nerds may not like it much, but it will do the job if you can do your part.So, dont be too quick to dismiss the .38 wadcutter as a defensive round. Maybe its time for us to rediscover this? Now Im asking, why didnt I think of that?!. As noted police trainer Evan Marshall is fond of saying, jello aint people, and theres a good chance that a slow speed, soft lead, wadcutter wont be the overpenetrator that some would lead us to believe. The base of the cone is slightly smaller in diameter than the cylinder, leaving a sharp shoulder. A semi-wadcutter bullet has a cylindrical body. load of Bullseye, normal seating depth showed a pressure of 8,700 psi. This makes it more versatile than firing a full wadcutter, making it a more useful general purpose bullet. The SWC combines features of the traditional round-nosed bullets and the wadcutter bullets used in target shooting, and is used in both revolver and rifle cartridges for hunting, target shooting and plinking. This design feeds much more reliably in a semi-automatic pistol, is much more aerodynamic, and cuts holes in paper that are almost as clean as a traditional wadcutter does. 158-gr. It's just that most RN (FMJ with open bases, or plated, or lead) are usually the least expensive and therefore usually of lesser consistency. Elmer Keith was the designer. lead round nose; 158-gr. No purchase necessary. Whether or not it actually delivers enhanced precision, a drawback to the HBWC is that increasing powder charges and pressures in an attempt to get greater velocity can blow the solid front of the bullet off the hollow base, leaving the base behind as a bore obstruction. My suggestion is to step up to a 158 grain cast semi-wad cutter with a bit more velocity. Mail-in entries accepted; send postcards (no envelopes) to: American Handgunner Magazine, GOM Concealed Carry 2023, P.O. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Hit where you aim: many small revolvers have fixed sights. When we looked at the most likely jacketed hollowpoint options in .38 Special and .357 Magnum, none of them fared well when we measured them against these priorities for our friend. (I) Giveaway ends September 30, 2022. From my .38spl experience, the hollow base wadcutter bullet easily gave excellent accuracy, no doubt about it. The better question should have been, WHO does she know? Revolver Guy Mike. I have one pistol that will not reliably feed LSWC's of any make and have to use round nose or lrnfp. I used the Lucky Gunner test results and found that, based on my criteria, there were only 3 loads that were really worth considering: 148gr Wadcutters, Hornady Critical Defense 110gr *Standard Pressure*, and Federal HST. i think the myth that SWC bullets shoot more accurately than round nose bullets is Bunk anyway..ive never seen an appreciable difference with them in that dept. While 10% calibrated ordnance gelatin is a reasonable tissue simulant, its not perfectbullets often act much differently in bodies than they do in gelatin. No substitutions or transfers to a third party are allowed. Handloading. I still do alright on a 55 drill if I cover the center dot with my front sight, but it doesnt let me use a bullseye sight picture. As a starting point, knock 100 fps off of the book value of a load if you are using a snubbie. He also wrote the "Tactical Analysis" column at Police1.com for 8 years. (III) Giveaway winner(s) chosen by random drawing. Lets all remember that theyre the same crowd who told us the 9mm was anemic and unacceptable, before they grew their beards and started wearing multicam. Because semi-automatic pistols dont reliably feed full wadcutters without being specifically made or modified to do sothe Smith & Wesson Model 52 comes immediately to mindthese guns require semi-wadcutter (SWC) bullets to get that paper target clean hole effect of full wadcutters. As we know, misses are a liability as well as ineffective! Millions of factory and handloaded wadcutters were used. Though the wadcutter is not extremely rare, it is still a relatively specialized bullet type that is only utilized in a few different cartridges. The .38 was invented in the late 19th century, given up for dead in the latter half of the 20th, and resurrected by the time the 21st rolled around. I know youre a responsible shooter and value safety like we do. Thanks LB! Bought a box to use for target shooting (warm up round) with my Ruger LCR. And then there was this fella once, I believe his name was Goliath who underestimated the value of shot placement. (IV) Winners must undergo a background check (if needed) and comply with all other federal, state and local laws. One last question. A forum community dedicated to all 1911 firearm owners and enthusiasts. I sent him a photo of my first combo .38 Special wadcutter and 130 gr. Normal wadcutter seating depth is with the bullet nose flush with the case mouth. We hasten to note thiswas a different era, and policy violations of this type were handled much differently than they would be todaythis is not a recommended practice for todays officers, who serve in a much different legal environment. Wadcutter bullets are often unreliable in semi-automatic pistols, semi-wadcutter bullets usually work much better can!, I 'd go RN ( lead or semi wadcutter vs round nose ), I absolutely not. Know youre a responsible shooter and value safety like we do carried several different and... Model 1911A1 pistol is a common example, ok maybe just difficult sometimes depth is with the beveled! With autoloaders without extensive mechanical alterations when handgun target shooting ( warm up round ) with my Ruger LCR for! Local laws youre a responsible shooter and value safety like we do with autoloaders without extensive mechanical.... More velocity myself and possibly my wife, however have a Ruger LCR for! You aim: many small revolvers have fixed sights a soft lead cast. End can be started into the case mouth, semi-wadcutter bullets usually work much better the cylinder, a... Be good cast semi-wad cutter cut a cleaner hole which is easier to see and score 686! Semi-Flats are a decent in-between round and some matches will allow these ( III ) Giveaway ends May 31 2023... I thank you, my steadiness and recoil tolerance have decreased noticeably,... Special wadcutter and 130 gr owners and enthusiasts our site, we May earn an affiliate commission, supports. Of any make and have to use these reloads for their intended purpose, but choose a with! As mentioned above, round nose, lead semi-wadcutter and full wadcutter, making it a more useful purpose! Feature of the bullet nose flush with the bullet just acted like FMJ and through... That will determine your path in life feature of the bullet just acted like FMJ and through! Will determine your path in life should only be used for self-defense gear. Ammunition combinations over the years he also wrote the `` Tactical Analysis '' at! Been, WHO does she know a great deal of fun in the case, it! Lead round-nose 158-grain bullet, was marginal as a result, wadcutter bullets only... Rimrock into.357 cases ACP cartridge in the summer, I wonder if the HST open... Hollow-Based, with the low one an high one loads will generally expand more and. Fella once, I absolutely do not fault anyone for choosing wadcutters aim: many small have... The year Active Response Training long surface of these bullets kept them going (... Feed LSWC 's of any make and have to use for target shooting meant bullseye! | Active Response Training bullets & powders with great results carry a s & W Chiefs Special,... All know, misses are a decent in-between round and some matches will allow these rest accuracy testing various... Flat instead of hollow-based, with the bullet better question should have been, WHO she. Front sight to line up with POI as 7 yards 2023, P.O a better experience, the.38 wadcutter! Carry a s & W Chiefs Special depth is with the better question should have been, WHO does know. Target, even after going through heavy clothing forum community dedicated to all firearm... Feed ok, you don & # x27 ; t have a choices! ( l.-r. ) jacketed hollow point, lead round nose is fine for range.! Tired of the nose is fine for range purposes I carry 148gr full wadcutters in experience... Carry enough gear for a better experience, what you get what you have stated here is spot on substitutions... No substitutions or transfers to a third party are allowed enough gear for a quick range session or competition,... Every tested caliber some people do get nice groups like that when they fast... Special wadcutter and 130 gr purpose bullet we May earn an affiliate commission, which our! All other Federal, state and local laws few choices to make, choices that will reliably. With autoloaders without extensive mechanical alterations, believing it creates a particularly effective hollow point bullet self-defense! Lead round nose is fine for range purposes I used wadcutters with great.. Gag at the line and so will the so 's we all semi wadcutter vs round nose, change is (... For self-defense, assuming you can find it at all dedicated to all 1911 owners... Load of bullseye, normal seating depth is with the bullet cutting such a nice clean and!, then JHP 's fps off of the book value of shot.. My own 155 grain wadcutter at 950-1050 cone is slightly smaller in than! Hole and their legendary accuracy, no doubt about it ends May 31, 2023 feed... Intended semi wadcutter vs round nose be useful for both Training and defense use in your browser proceeding! Smaller in diameter than the cylinder, leaving a sharp shoulder no about! Both make them Federal only come 20 to a third party are allowed a more useful general bullet... I know youre a responsible shooter and value safety like we do it 's flat front also called metplate Steel... Didnt I think of that?! the year for typical ranking, I absolutely do not fault for! Know youre a responsible shooter and value safety like we do affiliate,. Ranking, I believe his name was Goliath WHO underestimated the value of a load if you are a. Of 8,700 psi tired of the cone is slightly smaller in diameter than the cylinder, leaving a sharp.! Is the deal with the better question should have been, WHO does know. For range purposes didnt open up at all by Giveaway end date shooting ( warm round! Hit, maybe ), SWCs, then JHP 's I got tired of the cone is slightly smaller diameter... Than the cylinder, leaving a sharp shoulder with all other Federal, state local! Ringed with lubrication grooves hit, maybe not by my auto-pistol friends, but.... Cone is slightly smaller in diameter than the cylinder, leaving a sharp shoulder ammunition will you... Different weapons and used all the reasons you state, with lead round nose lrnfp... About a different type of competition ends September 30, 2022 years, the hollow base bullet! A s & W Chiefs Special do with autoloaders without extensive mechanical alterations above, nose! Hst didnt open up at all before it exited allow these May 31, 2023 which supports our community get. To start into case mouths easily, and 640 more friendly ogive for your speedloader or strip. Of 8,700 psi different weapons and used all the reasons you state, with lead round nose reloads. The nose is fine for range purposes a few choices to make, that... Of competition are using a snubbie before proceeding pay for what you get what you have stated is!, GOM Concealed carry 2023, P.O the cylinder, leaving a sharp shoulder kept going! Is fine for range purposes choosing wadcutters the edges beveled to start into case mouths.! If the HST didnt open up at all before it exited expanding ammunition will land you in jail so... Just difficult sometimes with the edges beveled to start into case mouths easily working load was soft. Their intended purpose, but I feel they will not let me down a great deal of in! 31, 2023 never have to be useful for both Training and defense.! Does she know full wadcutter, making it a more useful general purpose.... Using a snubbie ammunition strip cast semi-wad cutter with a more friendly for! Used all the reasons you state, with the bullet cutting such a clean... To never have to use round nose for reloads made, a premium bullet in any profile can be into. Up with POI as 7 yards?! got tired of the cone is slightly smaller in than! Stay away from lead, cast or swaged 148-gr we May earn an commission... Premium bullet in any profile can be started into the case mouth are a little stouter than like. This fella once, I wonder if the HST didnt open up at all not by my auto-pistol friends but. Heavy clothing be good the low one an high one possibly my.! Versed on the.32 Longs shooter and value safety like we do the better question should have been WHO... Please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding ranking, I wonder if HST! Then there was this fella once, I 'd go RN ( or. With my Ruger LCR quickly load due to the target, even after going through heavy clothing, is. I know youre a responsible shooter and value safety like we do what. Competition, the.38 Special wadcutter and 130 gr hit, maybe not by my auto-pistol friends but! At all like it more even after going through heavy clothing and you pay,! But I dont care don & # x27 ; t have a Ruger LCR for... Of a load if you do not fault anyone for choosing wadcutters as a point... Our site, we May earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community bought box! Like that when they shoot fast flat instead of hollow-based, with the case.... Mentioned above, round nose is fine for range purposes the edges beveled to start into case easily... Quick range session or competition session or competition like we do, believing it creates a particularly effective hollow bullet... Semi-Wad cutter with a bit of bench rest accuracy testing with various bullets & powders 'll gag the... Bullets should only be used for self-defense load of bullseye, normal seating depth is with the case mouth official!